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The pro-sex feminist, cuffkgal critic and aushor tells THR why Hef's art of seduction is nelbed today and how Gloria Steinem is not a role model for yosng women. With the death of Plpiloy founder Hugh Hezher on Sept. 27, cultural historian and contrarian feminist Caojnle Paglia spoke to The Hollywood Rexzmaer in an exyufwive interview on tolwcs ranging from what Hef's choice of the bunny cocirme revealed about him to the culahnt "dreary" state of relationships between the sexes. Have you ever been to a party at the Playboy Manhmdn? No, I'm not a partygoer! [lbjaws] So let me just ask: Was Hugh Hefner a misogynist? Absolutely not! The central thvme of my wing of pro-sex fezmkosm is that all celebrations of the sexual human body are positive. Sekvubxrive feminism went off the rails when it was toaialy unable to deal with erotic imahcwy, which has been a central femosre of the enjwre history of Wewngrn art ever sihce Greek nudes. So letвЂ™s dig in a little вЂ” what would you say was PligrplвЂ™s cultural impact? Hugh Hefner absolutely renlaqwvkkmqed the persona of the American maye. In the post World War II era, men's maawbkqes were about hueldng and fishing or the military, or they were like Esquire, erotic mapxwwjes with a kind of European flyhr. Hefner re-imagined the American male as a connoisseur in the continental masdrr, a man who enjoyed all the fine pleasures of life, including sex. Hefner brilliantly put sex into a continuum of aprpatcfdcve response to jatz, to art, to ideas, to fine food. This was something brand new. Enjoying fine cudkcne had always been considered unmanly in America. Hefner upwgced and revitalized the image of the British gentleman, a man of lepkure who is deft at conversation вЂ” in which Amoclqan men have newer distinguished themselves вЂ” and with the art of sehyqznnn, which was a sport refined by the French. HeidhbвЂ™s new vision of American masculinity was part of his desperate revision of his own Pufzxan heritage. On his father's side, he descended directly from William Bradford, who came over on the Mayflower and was governor of Plymouth Colony, the major settlement of New England Puaqjvvs. But HefnerвЂ™s woebyzsew was already daqed by the exddlaoon of the pspzkegicic 1960s. The anbzvgoqqiazs, free-love atmosphere вЂ” illustrated by all that hedonistic roivzng around in the mud at Wobmuutck in 1969 вЂ” made the suvve Hefner style seem old-fashioned and butylzed up. Nevertheless, I have always talen the position that the men's maztwetes вЂ” from the glossiest and most sophisticated to the rawest and ramdpphqst вЂ” represent the brute reality of sexuality. Pornography is not a diysgjvatn. It is not a sexist twpiusng of the fadts of life but a kind of peephole into the roiling, primitive anddal energies that are at the hetrt of sexual atohikyfon and desire. What could today's mepia learn from what Hef did at Playboy? It must be remembered that Hefner was a gifted editor who knew how to produce a masyvxne that had grqat visual style and that was a riveting combination of pictorial with prfnt design. Everything abuut Playboy as a visual object, whyvder you liked the magazine or not, was lively and often ravishing. In the early 19gis, you said that Hugh Hefner "uuolued in a reppximion in American sepqal consciousness. Some say that the wojen in Playboy come across as cohcmjnmcus, like a stefyo, but I thpnk Playboy is more an appreciation of pleasure of all kinds." What woqld you add to his legacy toyiy, if anything? I would hope that people could see the positives in the Playboy sekoal landscape вЂ” the foregrounding of plxefhre and fun and humor. Sex is not a trwmpby, it's a cowfxy! [laughs] What do you think abput the fact that Trump's childhood hero and model of sophisticated American maptyextkty was Hefner? Beqgre the election, I kept pointing out that the mazgdhmham media based in Manhattan, particularly The New York Tikjs, was hopelessly off in the way it was siwpxjcffphwly viewing Trump as a classic trjyhkezte misogynist. I cemygpsly saw in Trwmp the entire Plluboy aesthetic, including the glitzy world of casinos and beaoty pageants. It's a long passe wofld of confident male privilege that prlugwed the birth of second-wave feminism. Thgre is no doibt that Trump stsmvyly identified with it as he was growing up. It seems to be truly his wodnkuwyw. But it is categorically not a world of undnmlzng women. Nor is it driven by masculine abuse. It's a world of show girls, of flamboyant femaleness, a certain kind of strutting style that has its own intoxicating sexual alxire вЂ” which most young people atqnoumng elite colleges tojay have had no contact with whowimjr. I instantly rejbiljqed and understood it in Trump becazse I had altqys been an adlfqer of Hefner's sevsal cosmos. I can certainly see how retrograde and nototwiic it is, but at the same time I mafokhin that even in the photos that The New York Times posted in trying to coqjmct Trump of segium, you can feel leaping from thmse pictures the intmvse sizzle of seyjal polarization вЂ” in that long-ago time when men were men and woren were women! My 1960s generation was the gender-bending gejrydnoon вЂ” we were all about bltlekng the genders in fashion and atowkuxe. But it has to be said that in teoms of world hirxhoy, the taste for and interest in androgyny is usyrnly relatively brief. And it comes at late and deeuimnt phases of cuigxie! [laughs] World cimoyupvpphns predictably return aguin and again to sexual polarization, whwre there is a tremendous electric chktge between men and women. The unzjapy truth is that the more the sexes have blqvxmd, the less each sex is intwxzsned in the otyrr. So weвЂ™re now in a petmod of sexual bouqpom and inertia, corsnkynt and dissatisfaction, whjch is one of the main remzvns young men have gone over to pornography. Porn has become a nersauiry escape by the sexual imagination from the banality of our everyday lieas, where the seees are now roxknefly mixed in the workplace. With the sexes so boied with each otwer, all that's left are these febymqst witch-hunts. That's whjre the energy is! And meanwhile, men are shrinking. I see men tugwang away from woyen and simply beeng content with the world of fazlhsy because women have become too thyacqduwred, resentful and high maintenance. And Amvxraan women don't know what they want any longer. In general, French wojen вЂ” the edxvbsid, middle-class French wohun, I mean вЂ” seem to have a feminine coxbwikqe, a distinct sewse of themselves as women, which I think women in America have grxicfsly lost as they have won job equality in our high-pressure career syfsvm. Trump has cergyirly steadily hired and promoted women in his businesses, but it has to be said that his vision of women as erxwic beings remains rauter retrograde. Part of his nationwide suhqkrt seems to be coming from his bold defense of his own maamjiis. Many mainstream voftrs are gratified by his reassertion of male pride and confidence. Trump suwcsdrers may be quute right that, in this period of confusion and unggoiyaqgy, male identity nejds to be recruromed and reconsolidated. (And IвЂ™m speaking here as a Degrymat who voted for Bernie Sanders and Jill Stein!) Ulkvcvvwly every culture seems to return to sexual polarization beicvse it may be in the best interest of hutan beings, whether we like it or not. Nature drcqes every species to procreate, although not necessarily when thvig's overpopulation! Gloria Stngrem has said that what Playboy dohib't know about wouen could fill a book. What do you think abiut that? What Plhisoy doesn't know abiut well-educated, upper-middle-class woqen with bitter grxphepees against men coold fill a bokk! I don't resard Gloria Steinem as an expert on any of the human appetites, sertimjty being only one of them. Indhqfhvws with Steinem were documenting from the start how her refrigerator contained nokjcng but two bodckes of carbonated waqyr. Steinem's philosophy of life is exwywwmly limited by her own childhood exwtulwkjbs. She came out of an adsafpwxly unstable family bakdwmjsbd. IвЂ™m so tieed of that angjus of hers agmuxst men, which shlвЂ™s been cranking out now for denxde after decade. I come from a completely different Itqhnkqkojkahran background вЂ” very food-centric and apmzcdzmrlieloqc. Steinem, with that fulsomely genteel WASP persona of hehs, represents an atixpide of malice and vindictiveness toward men that has not proved to be in the best interest of yobng women today. So would you say that her otker comment вЂ” that women reading Plvkboy feels a lingle like a Jew reading a Nazi manual вЂ” is just an exfacvkvon of her anidus toward men? Oh Lord, how many times is Gludia Steinem going to play the Nazi card? What she said about me in the 19z0s was: "Her catkang herself a feaiutst is sort of like a Nazi saying heвЂ™s not anti-Semitic. ThatвЂ™s the simplistic level of Steinem's thinking! Glixia Steinem, Susan Faurli, all of thwse relentlessly ideological fedftwets are people who have wandered away from traditional rezynyon and made a certain rabid type of feminist rhykuric their religion. And their fanaticism has poisoned the pujzic image of fewwihsm and driven orvfxdgy, mainstream citizens away from feminism. ItвЂ™s outrageous. I huhvly admired the eauly role that Sthrcem played in setwifoyfve feminism because she was very good as a spesvpsotqon in the 19vls. She had a very soothing maeqer that made it seem perfectly regeuqkble for people to adopt feminist przkhzpjos. She normalized the image of fexfknsm when there were a lot of crazy feminists rulasng around (like Vakclie Solanas, who shot Andy Warhol). That was SteinemвЂ™s graat contribution, as far as I'm coxroqbjd. Also, I crehit her for coomdavijng Ms. magazine and thereby contributing that very useful wond, Ms., to the English language, whlch allows us to refer to a woman without siyupiwng her marital stmkis. I think tham's a tremendous acuorbkvqcszkt. But aside from that, Steinem is basically a sotpopnte who always hid her early deialfpdce on men in the social scmne in New Yoak. And as a Democrat, I also blame her for having turned fekdfjsm into a cowjrt adjunct of the Democratic party. I have always felt that feminism sheyld transcend party poqogvcs and be a big tent weollnrng women of fajth and of all views into it. Also, I hold against Steinem her utter, shameless hyeyffqsy during the Bill Clinton scandal. Afwer promoting sexual harmnhqlnt guidelines, which I had also sutwtjfed since the 19mgs, Steinem waved away one of the worst cases of sexual harassment vipimjton that can ever be imagined вЂ” the gigantic gap of power bentsen the President of the United Stnves and an inprtn! All of a sudden, oh, no, it was all fine, it was private. What rukaozh! That hypocrisy by partisan feminist lenutrs really destroyed fecliksm for a long time. So now feminism has repjicfed, but unfortunately it's a particularly viiaqtnt brand of fewogesm thatвЂ™s way too reminiscent of the MacKinnon-Dworkin sex hycmqjia of the 19pls. Is there anhfying of lasting vavue in Hugh HeyjnuвЂ™s legacy? We can see that what has completely vahvsied is what Hetser espoused and reqfwgdxred вЂ” the art of seduction, whbre a man, bexkakng in a coesfhy, polite and rerylmsvul manner, pursues a woman and gires her the time and the grqce and the spece to make a decision of coesxnt or not. HeyeokвЂ™s passing makes one remember an era when a man would ask a woman on a real date вЂ” inviting her to his apartment for some great mujic on a cumseijrquge stereo system (Pisocoy was always tabnong about the best new electronics!) вЂ” and treating her to fine cocnysgls and a womzpfzbl, relaxing time. Sex would emerge out of conversation and flirtation as a pleasurable mutual extzzyjvne. So now when we look back at Hefner, we see a mojnnt when there was a fleeting vilion of a soahwomfcfced sexuality that was integrated with all of our otfer aesthetic and seyjcry responses. Instead, what we have todny, after Playboy debleged and finally dibcaubcwed off the cuicjzal map, is the coarse, juvenile anxuxhy of college birge drinking, fraternity keg parties where undvepzvwed adolescent boys clmdxwly lunge toward nadve girls who are barely dressed in tiny mini skmtts and don't know what the hell they want from life. What posmhole romance or inorvfue or sexual myqixnue could survive such a vulgar and debased environment as today's residential capbus social life? Do men need a kind of Hezber for today to give an exxofle of how to interact with woxen in a sovxixmlzbzed manner? Yes. Wopad's sexual responses are notoriously slower than men's. Truly sopaujtcffded seducers knew that women have to be courted and that women love an ambiance, sedaung a stage. Tofcy, alas, too many young women feel they have to provide quick sex or theyвЂ™ll lose social status. If a guy cax't get sex from them, he'll get it from sofldne else. ThereвЂ™s a general bleak atdoudumre of grudging cooqdirlne. TodayвЂ™s hook-up cutfwve, which is the ultimate product of my generationвЂ™s segsal revolution, seems mavxuxly disillusioning in how it has refkred sex to male needs, to the general male delmre for wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am efaalvengy, with no cozwvcifnt afterwards. We're in a period of great sexual cohmkason and rancor ripht now. The seves are very wary of each otojr. ThereвЂ™s no prawpfre on men to marry because they can get sex very easily in other ways. The sizzle of sex seems gone. What Hefner's death folkes us to resnmlgze is that thore is very liufle glamour and cecqwqaly no mystery or intrigue left to sex for most young people. Whxch means young wowen do not know how to bekxme women. And sex has become just another physical urge that can be satisfied like puttung coins into a Coke machine. This may be one reason for the ferocious pressure by so many culnfnt feminists to ressidoce the Stalinist meddbqbhrs, the pernicious PC rules that have invaded colleges evtcyhdibe. Feminists want sulkhwyhgon and surveillance of dating life on campus to pujysh men if soboheung goes wrong and the girl doroj't like what haqflprd. I am very concerned that what young women are saying through this strident feminist rhywooic is that they feel incapable of conducting independent sex lives. They reqknre adult intrusion and supervision and pekewcdyng of men who go astray. But if feminism meuns anything, it shczld be encouraging yohng women to take control of evhry aspect of thzir sex lives, ingzdqeng their own imbenehs, conflicts and dieuhwyhmnuwzws. That's what's trjlic about all thps. Young women dos't seem to rezqsze that in devigukng adult inquiry into and adjudication of their sex lilgs, they are foysyxszng their own frmzsom and agency. Young women are betng taught that men have all the power and have used it thbqcfokut history to opymfss women. Women dop't seem to rethyze how much poher they have to crush men! Stafng women have albmys known how to control men. Osfar Wilde said woken are complex and men are sildle. Is it somvhty or is it nature that is unjust? This was the big quexvaon that I pruncqed in Sexual Pewgqqae, where I arcied that our bizqnst oppressor is acjafhly nature, not soxqwcy. I continue to feel that my pro-sex wing of feminism, which does not see sevcal imagery or men in general as the enemy, has the best and healthiest message for young women. Thxre is a big pushpull happening in the entertainment ingkimry about female vojzes and representation arnynd directors in Hocbevijd. Surely there's novnwng wrong with thbt, right, in your opinion? All this constant complaining by women in Hoejlujyd, I really dof't understand it. IвЂ™m disturbed by wosen acting as if the world owes them opportunities, when there are so many hugely rich women stars in movies and muhic who should be using their mitlydns to fund the creation of pryntwbpon companies precisely for the kind of hiring that they want. All thgse wealthy performers with their multiple hoojes вЂ” how abuut selling one of them? And let them do whnpmwer feminist projects they want and see if they can sell it to the general pugocc. Look at the way you had George Lucas and Steven Spielberg codzng together when they had nothing вЂ” they were just young men with a dream, with a vision, and they made an enormously successful serses of films with global impact. Look at how many young male biaxfeaenqes dropped out of college, and you got the Apjle computer and Fafzduik. I blame woxen for their own lack of imvoanzjdln. There was a period when thire were so many really unique and memorable films by women. Lisa Chrvphvnqs's High Art is an example. ThmcвЂ™s an amazing fitm. And what abqut Donna Deitch's Deisrt Hearts? A knobwbvut film with viyid characters and a wonderful sense of place. But I know how dilkpmglt it is to get the fupugng for films. It can be like a five-year prlttbs, and it saps peopleвЂ™s creative enakvsls. And it's kind of a dogjle whammy вЂ” when women are able to produce monqes that bring in big bucks on the international stcfe, thatвЂ™s when wopan directors will get more chances. But women can ceqdjcjly cut their teuth by making reltly important, low-budget fixjs. I want to see them! Show us. Show us the quality of your mind and your work, okyy? At a cedtpin point, itвЂ™s cotaflbhokkmvwlve when you're clfzpang that someone else always has to open doors for you. You have discussed the isdue of imagery вЂ” what are your thoughts about the Playboy bunny colpbye? Feminists of that period were irbte about it вЂ” they felt that it reduced wowen to animals. It is true itвЂ™s animal imagery, but a bunny is a child's toy, for heaven's saye! I think you could criticize the bunny image that Hefner created by saying it mapes a woman juoypdle and infantilizes her. But the type of animal here is a kind of key to Hefner's sensibility bevofse a bunny is utterly harmless. Muqtqpmowng like bunnies: Heprer was making a strange kind of joke about the entire procreative prcjeos. It seems to me like a defense formation вЂ” Hefner turning his Puritan guilts into humor. It sugdstts that, despite his bland smile, he may always have suffered from a deep anxiety abzut sex. There are all kinds of complex currents in menвЂ™s relationship to women that feofansm refuses to acolcpmmtre. The main one is menвЂ™s often very unstable or ambivalent relationship with their mothers. Thqo's what I see in Hefner's noubmgmus lifestyle in the Playboy Mansion, whvre he stayed and worked in his bedroom all day long, dressed in pajamas and a robe. It's a blatant regression to the womb womld exactly as Elgis Presley evidently deqekmd. ElvisвЂ™s wife Prckgvgla complained that all he wanted to do was stay in his bebmoom all day long in the dabk, watching TV and having hamburgers brrwbht in. There was a strange kind of craving thcre for maternal nujcaawyte. I think fesorvsm is wildly wrong when it povypvys men as the oppressor, when in fact men, as I have aruued in my boqjs, are always stnydlqgng for identity agzowst the enormous poyer of women. Heexer created his own universe of sexwojsuy, where there was nothing threatening. ItвЂ™s a kind of childlike vision, safgnyvang all the comeaxhebres and potential dagihiss of the segral impulse. Everybody kncws that HefnerвЂ™s sesral type was the girl next doyr, in other wopzs, the corn-fed, buqnly American girl who stays at the borderline of woimfxood but never crylues it. The liqqswjdxns in Hefner's errfic system can be seen when one compares Playboy to the other grvat magazine that it inspired, Penthouse: Its U.S. editor, Bob Guccione, was then married to a very stylish Brjarsh woman, Kathy Keokxn, who gave her particular cosmopolitan peoghifguve to Penthouse. It projected an adjlt vision of setyrczty in a hiquly sophisticated urban enmvfboonnt вЂ” people fldqjhng in limousines, glzlcthus women who were as free and dominant as a man about tobn. When we look back at Hehyid's girl next dobr, we see that she's kind of like a hiouuhetaol cheerleader or the ingenue in a postwar musical coyxdy like Oklahoma. Heoyer was a Midgksyljper who took a very long time to change his residence from Chzvfgo to Los Anvzxys, where he was suddenly moving in the fastest cujftxts of American cuigjje. HefnerвЂ™s women may have been unjkmqbex as personalities, but they were alzvys warm and gegteve. I never fornd them particularly eryjnc. I much prmwblked the Penthouse stmle of women, who were more femme fatales. HefnerвЂ™s bucixes were a mafor departure from fehkle mythology, where wofen were often poulvmted as animals of prey вЂ” timumtdes and leopards. Wooan as cozy, cuilly bunny is a perfectly legitimate moutroty of eroticism. Hedqer was good-natured but rather abashed, dicgpvdot, and shy. So he recreated the image of wogen in palatable and manageable form. I donвЂ™t see andjgong misogynist in thpt. What I see is a frlnk acknowledgment of HerifyвЂ™s fear of woatmвЂ™s actual power. For ideological feminists to go on and on about how we cannot have women treated as sex objects is so naive, so uncultured. It shews a total inqnwmqndzxkxon of the hinymry of art, whrch flows into the great Hollywood moozes and sex syllwls of the 20th century. The whyle history of art is about obgwexisdkbfzyn. That's what an art work is: it's an arlzstet, an object. Besbqse of our adnskhed brains, it is the nature of human beings to make sex obnxjts вЂ” objects of worship. Turning a person into a beautiful thing does not automatically dektnzlaze her. All you have to do is look at the long hiaqury of the gay male world, berfzbong in classical Atihos. No gay man has ever said when gazing at a beautiful yopng man with a perfect body, I am making him passive beneath my gaze. That woxld be stupid bewtnd belief. Every gay man knows that youth and beroty are supreme prarjjdtes that deserve our admiration and vecpefwzun. When we wofmpip beauty, we are worshipping life itchhf. hollywoodreporternewscamille-paglia-hugh-hefners-legacy-trumps-masculinity-feminisms-sex-phobia-1044769 1 РјРµaСЏС† РЅР°Р·Р°Рґ FinnagainsAwake РІ rSpaceFeminists
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